In the latest version of Dealcast Podcast Rupert Cocke from Mergermarket speaks with Nadine Mirchandani, EY’s Global Deputy Vice Chair for Strategy and Transactions about how to find and nurture talented M&A teams.

Nadine shares why she sees the importance of hiring a diverse team with strong technical and soft skills. As well as programs at EY that promote female leadership. The conversation also delves into how AI can serve as an asset and accelerator for the future, among other topics.

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One of the big themes of this podcast is the human side of M&A. Which is so important, but it’s often hidden behind jargon and numbers.

I’m joined today by, by Nadine, Mir Chandini from EY, you’re an expert in people development.

What qualities do you look for, when you’re hiring people? And what qualities do you look for when you when when the time comes to promote people?

Well, thank you, Robert. It’s a pleasure to be with you today, and to, have a discussion that I think we need to have more of. And that you’re quite right. There is, there is people behind the numbers, and there’s people behind the insights.

And so I’m a believer that, that we sort of value the people that advise us and, and help us advise our clients. And so, It’s it’s a really good question as sort of, you know, what do we look for, in in the talent, that that we hire. And I would say we we always look for our balance. It’s got it’s strong technical skills.

Our people come to us with a technical craft. That we need, and we’re very proud of, and we want to continue to develop and, and to, and to hone. But, we also want them to come with curiosity.

A drive for continuous learning. And also what I would say is is often termed as soft skills. There are actually hard to develop those soft skills, but they’re really elements of a leadership mindset, in the way that they work and in the way that they collaborate. And so It’s really that.

I mean, we are in a world that is not going to get less complex. It’s going to get more complex. And so we really value the ability to analyze complex issues and, and critically think. And I often refer to it with our teams and, and my teams as blank page thinking, wherein the good fortune of at a time where, you know, that sort of there are new opportunities to develop new things.

And if you are scared by a blank page, I always look at that as an opportunity to draw a different picture. And so I think that’s really the core of critical thinking. And then skills, of course, is what we’re known for and and what we bring to bear on on, every project with every client.

But I think there’s, you know, sort of, we need to sort of make sure that we’re inculcating and developing, frankly, what I call a leadership mindset. And, you know, we’re better together in teams, so we need to have teamwork, be front, and center in all that we do. It’s gotta be about communication. When we’re itemizing on M&A, you’re communicating complex concepts.

We’re communicating the financial analysis that you reference. Oh, we’ve gotta, you know, sort of translate that into commercial concepts and business concepts. And so I think communication is absolutely key. You’ve got to do it in a way that harnesses the power of the team.

And so collaboration, no one person has all the answers, and, you know, there’s no one side to, to a problem. So, I really think those are sort of the dynamics of what we hire. And then I guess as we sort of, you know, grow and develop talent, we’re an apprenticeship model, and people sort of, you know, develop on the job and learn on the job. And, you know, as we see people advancing to the next level, it’s really about sort of I would say sort of human interaction and and client relationships and building trust, in those relationships.

So people who listen as much as they, you know, sort of been perhaps even more so than that they speak, and that they, again, sort of, anchor into, you know, continuous learning because that is, that is the constant is change. And so, it’s not a static set of skills, I think, that will define those that are successful in the future.

It goes without saying that, you know, we are absolutely committed to our values and our principles. And so everybody that joins our firm, and I think everybody that works in this history holds himself and should, in fact, hold themselves to a very high standard of integrity, professionalism.

And in many it respects, a sort of a respect for diversity and diversity of thought because that’s how we get better.

It’s very interesting. And, everything you said resonates with me as a financial journalist, because what we look for when we in our in our editorial team as some of the same values, we look for curiosity, we look for collaboration, teamwork, we look for critical thinking, and we look for integrity. And so I think it those are probably going to be key values and key issues across this slate, in the world that coming because nobody knows everything. Exactly.

Now the world of M&A still tends to be very male. It’s very middle class. It’s very white. It’s very straight. It’s very able-bodied.

It’s, it’s very cisgender.

I plead guilty on all counts, but That needs to change. We need to see more diversity in in M &A. And I was just wondering if you could tell us what you’re doing at at EY to develop female leadership and also what you’re doing to develop minorities.

Absolutely. And and again, we are a human capital business. Right? So the people that have the best minds around the table are those that advise their clients in, in the best ways.

And so when you think about that, we have to sort of attract, and retain talent, in in every form that it comes, frankly, to advise effectively. And so if I just sort of spent a few moments on, on female leadership, because you touched on that, you know, I think it really, I’m really proud of the fact under, you know, sort of the banner of a program that we have at EY called Women Fastforward. We’re not only solving today, but we’re really trying to solve sort of for the underlying pipeline of what tomorrow could be. And so, one of the things we’re particularly proud of is helping women and girls reach their potential through education, through mentorship, through innovation.

And so we have a program called E Y entrepreneurial winning women. It was launched in two thousand eight. So many, many years ago, and it’s really targeted at, female entrepreneurs and founders of companies. And ensuring that they have access to, you know, insights, knowledge, tools, and networks that it will allow them to attract capital to grow their businesses.

And we know that, you know, we’re still evolving access to capital and equitable access to capital. For all, manners of diverse entrepreneurs. And so we, we have that program. We also have it sort of for, other ethnic minorities who also struggle to as capital.

And so that’s an example of, you know, women fast forward that’s external to to our firm. More internal to our firm, I’m really proud of something that’s very close to, to my heart. We run every year in EY next gen, women, in, in strategy and transaction. It’s a competition.

That really is aiming to inspire the next generation of talent, who is in university and pursuing education to pursue this exciting and fulfilling career. And as you know, we don’t have enough people who want to sign up and be in this world for all the reasons that you articulated.

They don’t necessarily look at it historically and see themselves represented in it. And so if we give them the opportunity to have exposure to people who look different and can succeed and environments and what their views, their different views are valued and heard, then I think we will attract more talent to this profession. And so that’s exactly what this petition is meant to do. We just actually had our global finals. And, the amount of talent that is out there that really hasn’t considered this as a career that now considers this as a career is a way of really getting underneath the the pipeline challenge of attracting talent into this into this business. And I could argue the same for efforts that we have underway in technology.

Attracting women to stem. But once they’re in the door, we also have to make sure that they’re in a culture and an environment that thrives and allows them to be seen and heard and valued and respected and included.

And so, again, we’ve gotta create communities. We’ve gotta have a culture that, not only welcomes diversity, but then make sure that we harness the power of that diversity by listening and by including it. And, and that’s really about sort of creating you know, environments in which they can, have access to learning, have careers, have mentors, have sponsors, and feel like they are part of the treat a team that is, is respecting what they have to offer. And, and, and so I think that’s really important.

And I think we have to get to a tipping point. Right? We’ve gotta get to the point where, there are enough communities, that allow us to really sort of harness the voice and the power of those group. And so, you know, EY, thirty three percent of our global executive is is, female.

Very proud to say that our, our next, global CEO and chairman-elect is a woman.

And I I think it’s really it’s really about that. Right? We’ve got to show people, what good looks like, and we’ve gotta move the culture to make sure that we’re accessing the good. That a diverse workplace, brings to us.

We also have to take that to our clients, and, and we’ve gotta support clients with that mindset. And increasingly, we get asked as we look at transactions for clients. Well, what do we think about this talent profile? Do they have the talent that they need for the future of this organization to to sort of thrive as a business.

And a key question of that is, do they have the diversity in their talent base, skill wise, gender, ethnic, all those elements that are gonna allow them to be resilient in the future in a world that’s changing. And so I think it’s increasingly important and frankly, relevant that we address talent and the profile of talent in corporations, and their ability to sort of thrive in the future in an environment that sort of talent dependent and talent changing that needs to be diverse and it needs to be heard and included.

So, you know, we we’ve we we raise that. We talk about that when we look at deals. And, you know, we we actually have tools and assets that allow us to advise on that. And so, know, one of the great collaborations has been E Y and the Institute for Private Capital, so they’re focused on the private equity industry, which is very important in the transactions world.

And we’ve developed, you know, diversity integration models with them. It’s an interactive online tool that uses data to calculate How many years will it take? For example, for a user to achieve their diversity targets? What could optimal look like?

And is that company resilient in the face of, of war for talent? Or a war for capabilities that perhaps didn’t exist in the in the history or in the past that might exist in the future. So it’s it’s internal so that we’re the best it’s also external to make sure that we’re giving our clients that advice as well.

Fantastic.

Obviously, I think EY is properly further along than some other people in the industry. But if someone claimed to you and asked, ask for your advice and said that they were looking to develop a more diverse talent base. What advice would you give them?

Well, I wish I had, the silver bullet to that, but I can only speak a little bit for maybe personal experiences.

So so first, it’s really it starts with culture.

And I would broaden this. It’s really a culture element of of belonging. Right? So you will have read many press reports that in this era of technology and connected technology, we’re know, we have more ways to be connected digitally than ever before, but we have epidemics and, and, crises of loneliness. It’s no different, you know, in a workplace. Right? So if we look at, you know, we publish something called the belonging barometer, And our most recent barometer was three point o, and it said that despite being more connected than ever in a digital friendly world where we’ve got all sorts of technology tools that that, you know, twenty four seven could frankly connect us.

People continue to feel excluded at work. And seventy five percent in fact. So three quarters of people continue to feel excluded at work. And if we are gonna change the game for, you know, sort of for talent and to make sure that we harness the value of diversity.

We’ve got to make sure that we’re creating places for everybody to belong. And this is not about sort of you know, specific groups. We’ve got to make sure that everybody belongs. We’ve gotta make sure that we’re focused on, you know, sort of wellness and all of its facets for all groups.

Because if we do that for all, we elevate inclusion for everybody, and that’s really what creates a culture where people can thrive. And so, I think we have to focus on belonging. And it, you know, it it can be as simple as, how are you doing today?

Or it can be sort of as important as in a in a large meeting observing who who doesn’t speak, or who hasn’t had an opportunity to speak. In making sure that you create the space. I oftentimes will, in meetings, just sort of say, has everybody who has something to contribute had a chance to do so? Let’s pause for a moment to make sure and just creating space in a conversation, for people who, who, who are want to be thoughtful and want to sort of listen and digest before they contribute can do that and that that sort of style is appreciated and valued.

And so I think it it it sort of starts there. I also think it’s absolutely chilled in the top. If if you, reaffirm your commitment to building and sustaining diverse global environments with the most senior people. And then demonstrating that you do that with your own teams, it shows it matters. Right? I often tell, you know, the power of the question, is incredible.

So I’ll oftentimes will sort of say, well, who have you taken to these meetings? Right? If you don’t have a good answer, and if that’s not the answer, that, we hope, which is a diverse group of people at a diverse group of thinkers, you’re gonna make sure that you have a different answer the next time I ask that question. And so I think it’s really important that, that we sort of set the tone at the top.

Correctly in organizations. And I think that really sort of dries outcomes. And then I do think it sometimes it’s as practical and as important, frankly, is, flexibility.

And, again, this is not about, you know, policies that favor anyone. It’s about making sure that we elevate the conversation for, better wellness and better quality of life for, for everybody. So it’s leveraging technology to support different working behaviors. It’s you know, allowing for, different pathways to get to contribute, contributing in conversations. And so I really think that that it it’s about sort of, you know, some of those very simple things, that that we have to sort of not only do. We have to sort of make it not, sorry, not only just say, but we have to do them too. We have to sort of operate our teams in that environment, and we’ve got us to make those commitments.

And so, and as I said earlier, we, you know, M&A, financial services, technology, many of those are really talent centered organizations.

And if and if we think, that DEA and a company’s policies don’t influence the attractiveness of that organization to attract the best and highest and, most impactful talent, then we’re dead wrong. Right? It is absolutely critical for talent strategies.

And, you know, people look at policies, when deciding where to work, and particularly hot skills and, and people that are under high high demand.

They will choose, oftentimes, based on whether or not there’s a culture in a company that prioritizes, you know, sort of this deI as a topic.

But not only just sort of says it, but actually lives it and breathes it and has, you know, sort of policies and culture and programs that support it.

Fascinating stuff. One of the big principles of journalism that we try and teach, people have been around the block a couple of times to try and teach younger journalists is show don’t tell. And I got this get this strong, sense that that’s exactly what you’re what you’re implying here. Show that diversity cares as a leader by going and and I opening up the floor to see if the shy people, the introverts, the people with imposter syndrome have something to say.

Absolutely. I mean, it’s it’s, we’ve got to close that, say, do gap. We often tie I sort of challenge people. I sort of said, you said this, but you did this. Right? We got it. We’ve gotta make sure those two line up.

The other principle I’m sure that you also ascribe too as a journalist is not just the what, but the why. Right? We’ve got to articulate the why we do what we do and what are the implications and the impacts of that, and whether that’s through talent or, or whether that’s through the way that we advise our clients, and, and so think there’s probably it sounds like a lot of similarities between our professions.

Absolutely. If you want a career change and you want to come to merge market and become an editor, Please let us know. Alright. I have one final question for you, Nadine.

Obviously, one of the big themes that people talk about a lot nowadays is artificial intelligence it’s coming, it’s here.

And lots of people feel threatened by it. I think it’s widely perceived. There’s a threat as much as it is an opportunity.

So when when people are thinking about improving their skills or upskilling in the jargon, given the AI is is coming or coming and increasing and it’s already here, what’s skill should people be looking at to develop in order to develop some career longevity and some resilience?

Yeah. It’s a great question. It’s one we get asked a lot. Right? Like, you know, it’s sort of, it’s here, and it’s gonna continue to evolve and be part of our industries.

And frankly, I’m in the camp of its exciting, because I think it’s like anything else. It’s an asset and a tool and an accelerator that’s gonna allow us to, do things differently. Yes. But that means that we have the opportunity then to sort of create new opportunities and new, new sort of ways of working.

And so, I’m, I’m, I’m one that’s you know, particularly excited. We often talk about I I love the, you know, sort of the way that people, could and should embrace AI, I think we’re sort of on the start of the, of the curve, particularly as it relates to M&A.

But I think there’s some great use cases. And you know, again, you know, I’m a believer that if you have the ability to analyze data, the data will tell you stories. And so the quantum of data that AI will allow us to, to analyze, and to analyze it sort of in a relatively rapid way, I think is gonna be, really powerful. And so that we make, you know, some informed data driven decisions, perhaps where we had limitations before.

I think it’s gonna allow us, you know, large language models, will allow us to sort of, do analytics differently. And forecast, you know, sort of elements of the future, perhaps, that we haven’t had the ability to forecast to the degree, so predictive analytics, I think, is particularly exciting. And then I also think that, you know, so there’s this efficiency element to, to AI. But I think if I what I’m more excited about is really where it helps to go into into things strategically.

And, we’ve seen it already in our, in our industry. We have, you know, we have what we refer to. We’re very proud of our, our edge platforms, which is our technology enabling, you know, insights and, and, and, and platforms, technology platforms that we use and we advise clients.

And we have, a platform called Strategy Edge. And we it’s AI enabled, technology that allows an investor to look at a market for strategic targets in real time and evaluate whether or not that’s a a prospect for acquisition, a prospect for joint venture, for themselves, it also allows you to see patterns of how your competitor set is perhaps transacting in the marketplace. And so you can see spikes. Like, oh, well, that’s interesting.

They’re going in that direction, based on their pattern of M&A or pattern of Alliance and joint venture. You get some competitive intelligence. That to me is what’s exciting, which is what do we, what what will we have the ability to sort of understand and see differently that will allow us to make different strategic decisions because the data will allow us to make connections and, and think differently. It is not, in any way, shape or form, at least in my view, going to replace the human.

And I think it will allow humans to work better. I think it will allow you and humans to work faster, but it’s it’s it’s, you know, humans bring, trust and relationships and, and, judgment and creativity, and all of those things that you’ve got to sort of marry. And I I look at that a little bit as the head and heart, combination in our business. And, very exciting.

I say to sort of make sure that we get that combination right, but it’s about sort of making sure that you know enough about the technology.

You know, how can work and that you play with it. I’m a big believer in in playing with technology, and that you trial, you error, you under stand where, you know, what its power could be, that you sandbox with it. And I think that, you know, for us, you know, one of the things that we’re really leaning into is prompt engineering.

And everybody is a prompt engineer in some form or fashion. We can all learn how to do that differently and better. We can all learn about data and, you know, what sort of unique data sets will allow us to create, you know, small language models, large language models, etcetera, unique data sets that will power unique insights for our firm and, and for on behalf of our clients. And so I’m really excited. I, I don’t often say upskilling. I talk about reskilling, because I think this is just another evolution the journey, we’re constantly going to be learning, and, and, frankly, reskilling in the courses of of careers that, you know, with longevity, of twenty, thirty, forty years. And so, this is just a, I think, sort of a material s curve change about sort of the way that we’re gonna skill and re scale, and and I’m pretty excited about it.

It’s a very inspiring answer. Thank you, Nadine. And the words that I jotted down with while you were speaking were storytelling.

Judgment, relationships.

The theme of this podcast is the human side of M&A, and I think that you’ve absolutely, identified some interesting themes there in the coming world that will be, marked by AI and it’s great to see that you see the human beings continuing to be the the engine for M&A, in the even as the new machine learning technology comes in, I’d like to thank you for your time, Nadine. It’s been very interesting talking to you. And, best of luck with all your all the exciting projects you’ve told us about.

Wonderful. Thank you. It’s been a pleasure to be here.

That was Rupert Koch who is the senior editor and head of Iberian coverage, speaking to Nadine Merchantani, who is the EY Global Deputy Vice Chair of Strategy and transactions.

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Dealcast from Mergermarket and SS&C Intralinks. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast, please follow it, and if you’re listening through Apple please rate and review the show. And if you’d like to find out more about what’s being discussed in the show, have a look at the show notes. Join us again next week.