In the latest ION Influencers Fireside Chat, Giovanni Amodeo sat down with Ariadna Stefanescu and David Hirschmann, Co-Heads of Permira Credit, to explore the evolution of the credit market and where investors can find resilient, high-performing opportunities in today’s shifting macroeconomic climate.

Key Topics Discussed:

1. Origins and Evolution of Permira Credit

• Founded in 2007, Permira Credit was a strategic extension of the firm’s private equity capabilities.

• The initiative sought to address both sides of the capital structure—investing in private debt alongside equity in leveraged buyouts.

• The launch coincided with the global financial crisis, testing the resilience of early strategies.

2. Private Credit’s Resilience Through Market Cycles

• Ariadna and David highlighted how the credit market has matured and diversified.

• Throughout cycles of volatility and dislocation, Permira’s strategies have adapted to changing liquidity dynamics and capital needs.

3. Most Promising Credit Strategies in 2025

• Strategic Opportunities: Both co-heads emphasized growing potential in dislocation investing, hybrid capital, and capital solutions. With stress emerging across sectors, less competition creates alpha opportunities.

• CLO Equity: Ariadna singled out CLO equity for its long track record, strong performance through shocks, and attractive cash yield from year one, making it a compelling cash-flow-focused investment.

4. Geographic Outlook: Focus on Western and Northern Europe

• Rather than pinpointing one outperforming country, Permira emphasizes pan-European companies that are market leaders.

• These companies show minimal correlation to local GDP growth, making the sector and sub-sector focus more crucial than country-specific performance.

5. Outlook on Interest Rates and Market Conditions

• With rates remaining elevated in both the U.S. and Europe, Permira views this environment as ripe for credit deployment, particularly in niche or distressed segments.

Key Takeaway: Permira Credit sees the current market as highly favorable for selective private credit strategies, particularly strategic and opportunistic debt investing. Their approach is shaped by nearly two decades of navigating economic cycles, always with a focus on pan-European leadership, cash-yielding assets, and risk-adjusted returns.

Key timestamps:

00:07 Introduction to the Fireside Chat
01:31 Founding of the Credit Business
02:34 Market Volatility and Economic Shocks
04:50 Transformation of the Credit Market
08:33 Current Credit Cycle Dynamics
10:09 Changing Interest Rate Environment
12:47 Investor Preferences in Private Credit
14:38 Integration of Credit and Private Equity
17:01 Sector Focus and Future Trends
19:06 Interaction with Borrowers and Sponsors
21:58 Outlook for M&A Activity
24:13 Correlation Between Private Equity and Secondary Activity
26:05 Emerging Trends in Secondary Markets
27:47 Skills for Future Investment Teams
31:46 Investment Strategies in Private Credit
33:52 Regional Focus in European Investments